First, I’m posting this reminder to buy a commission before the November 19th deadline!
Now, recently there was a little drama in the comments section. A commenter posted this response to a scene where Andrea gets bear blood all over her face.
I dislike the way you write female characters. The only two female characters are Andrea and the vegan. I don’t have a problem with not having many female characters, especially if it is a reflection on the setting, but I dislike the way you write Andrea. It seems like every few pages is her being disgusted by something and screaming. I don’t want an action hero, but at least have her add something to the story instead of just being a glutton for punishment who is taunted by that narrative because she can’t adapt to the extreme situation. I hope I’ve quantified my position in a clear manner.
The commenter’s response was reflecting this scene:
Andrea gets bear blood all over her face, and then she unintentionally cleans her face with a rabbit pelt Dickinson recently used to wipe poo off of his hands. It’s his poo bunny. In my mind, when I think of any of the females I know, including my own fiance, their response to this situation would be pretty much exactly this. That is not to say Andrea as a character is exactly like most females I know, but she is like most of them when it comes to getting blood all over her. I guess it’s a stereotype. I’ve gotten in trouble before over this issue from the stereotype police, but generalities are not rules, they are generalities. General by definition means “not in all instances” so yes, I do think in general most women, girls and females would react similarly to this situation.
As for the quality of my writing, well first, I do not claim to be a great writer period. Second, I definitely don’t claim to be a good writer of female characters. I admit, I’m figuring a lot of this out as I go along. But just to have some fun I decided to do some rewrites of this scene taking Andrea in a different, less common direction.
and one more try…
This was so fun I wanted to share the fun and pass it on to you. Feel free to fill in the bubbles and send me your best lines. If I like any of them I may post them.
Now, I’m sure the person who criticized my writing is not any happier at this point. Honestly, most of the comments responding to her were pretty right on with my feelings. The female characters have not had a lot of time to develop, and in my mind ALL of the characters at this point are kind of annoying except for Dickinson and maybe Joel. They are stereotypes. Or at least types. They are the pampered, entitled college-aged American kids who are used to the biggest ongoing problem in life being the battery life of their iPhone. In a world where bears are taking over they are just not heroic. I am telling this story so that some of them will hopefully become heroic, and some of course won’t. I actually think that is one of the weaknesses I am encountering is that in creating characters that have room to change, maybe they are a little too unlovable. I think Gogs and Joel are probably the most lovable of the group and they are the least predictable. Honestly, this is my first time writing a story like this so you really are watching me work out the kinks.
I wanted to learn how to write characters, but I used a story that is more about the action and the comedy to practice it. I do hope to write stories with strong character development some day, and this is my step in that direction. I guess you can take it or leave it. I’m having fun. Thanks for reading Bearmageddon everybody! And Advil, Andrea is going to go through some growth, so I hope you’ll stop back by and visit once in a while.
Ethan
Oh, and nice response Ethan! 😀
Would a pampered college guy have the same reaction? I think so. People need to stop overreacting to fiction and think about how they would react to a face full of bear blood.
I’d probably have the same reaction to bear blood and poo-bunny in my face and I’m a middle-aged guy. Nothing to see here.
well-handled. I’ve gotta remember this tactic.
First bubble:
That is the LAST time I enter a pie-eating contest that doesn’t allow utensils.
Second bubble:
Well, at least you won. Here’s your prize.
Third bubble:
ANOTHER dead poo bunny? I’ve got a dozen of these already back home. I need to start checking the prize list before entering.
I think Andrea’s response was dead on. Pretty much everyone would have the same response when handling something akin to used TP.
First bubble: Gagg! Bear blood smell and tastes like crap.
Second bubble: Here, maybe this’ll help!
Third bubble: Isn’t that Charmin?!
Love the response Ethan. Must buy more bear-related things to show my support!
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c269/StormEagle14963/Haemolacria.jpg
dont see much wrong with a woman who dig comics wanting to see stronger female characters in comics she reads. dont see much wrong with an author being self-deprecating and humble about his ability to write complex female characters. not so sure about a bunch of male commentators writing off her perspective, tho, however apologetically. this is cute ethan, but when you replied to that girl calling out asian stereotypes in the axe cop comments by drawing her as a superhero, that was a much better look. nobody here thinks that youre an asshole, and maybe you are just a dude making comics for dudes, but if a girl is asking to be included, what’s really wrong with that? rather than justify why anyone would be grossed out by this specific thing, why not just take a second and think about strong women in your life and how andrea could have a moment sometime down the line that shares that with your readers? maybe lots of the dudes here would just find that annoying, or maybe theyd find her more compelling and better understand Joel’s attraction to her. maybe the girls here (are there any or have the dudes scared them off? holler at us!) wouldn’t notice or care, or maybe theyd find themselves feeling more engaged and better represented by this female character in your comic, as i do with the pretty multi-faceted male protagonists in this comic. i dunno. i don’t expect you to be an expert in gender roles/relations/whatever (im certainly not), but you strike me as a compassionate and open guy who occasionally gets defensive when he could just keep being compassionate and open instead
Yeah I’m done. I don’t even care about how the characters are written because all I want to see is bears mauling people, but this seemed a bit too much for just one comment. I understand that it is hard to write about characters different from you, that’s part of the challenge of becoming a writer. I can’t write good male characters because I’m not male, I can ask male friend for help but that only goes so far. It just takes time and will be a bit hard when you first start. I will say as a woman I never saw anything sexist in the comic or in the comments from fans, in fact almost all of it is very polite even the criticism, but this seems a bit defensive and slightly passive aggressive. Really putting the commenter’s name out there seemed like targeting and may open her up to harassment even if you didn’t mean it to be that way.
Yes, I’m sure everyone will look our friend “Advil” up in the phone book and start sending her tons of hatemail:
“Dear Ms. Advil…”
Well every fanbase has it’s share of zealot sarcastic ass kissers that say the creator can do no wrong and will attack any that they think say other wise.
Like it absolutely has never happened before, you mean?
I just canb4t get tired of this novels. Itb4s so befutiaul and seductive, a person just canb4t get enought of it .I love Ren , he defenetively should be with Calla.I was dying to know what happened after Wolfsbane and exceded all my expectations!! <3
If the idea was to get a point across it would be to ‘qualify’ not ‘quantify’ Take the comment with a grain of salt, 25 cent vocabulary words notwithstanding
Why am I such an idiot?! I don’t even know English. I spent all my quarters on those vocabulary words, and you showed me up in 25 seconds flat. After reading this back to myself, it occurred to me that this could be interpreted as sarcasm. I assure you that it is not.
I’m a female, I’m not squeamish about most things–however if bear blood got on me, I’d most likely feel the same exact way as Andrea.
Bear blood AND poo bunny.
I’m a female that regularly gets animal blood all over her (I’m a vet student, that is kind of what happens), and this would gross me out. Bear blood on my face and all I’d be thinking about is what parasites might be entering my mucosal membranes….and then you add human feces to the mix and I’d be very disgusted.
I do understand a bit about the objection, though. The female characters are kind of all tree hugger namby pambies. They didn’t even make it to “absurd college student status”. They got stuck as hypocritical “earth mother” which is kind of irritating. But, again, there isn’t a single character in this whole comic that isn’t a stereotype, so it doesn’t really bother me all that much.
People need to actually realize though, she was introduced into the story when the guys went to the “hippy save the trees” convention – so yeah i think its perfectly reasonable for her to act the way she does.
secondly people aren’t forced to read this. personally i love it for what it is, its a comic.
Thirdly – its very easy to criticize and make suggestions to work someone else has done.
Funny thing is loads of girls (yes I’m going to generalize) love twilight, which i personally think has horrible acting and situations that are far from believable and serious holes in the plot line. so do you know what i do? i don’t watch it.
So glad to have finally caught up with Bearmageddon!
I, for one, loved the poo bunny scene. But it’s important to recognize that “Advil” is someone who took time out of her day to read your comic. More than that, she apparently liked it enough to think that some thoughtful, constructive criticism might be worthwhile. You seem to be a really approachable person, based on how you usually conduct yourself online. That’s probably why it seemed safe for your fan to offer you her opinion directly. If I were you, I’d try to nurture that reader/creator relationship, rather than make a fool of the first person to question your portrayal of what could soon become a favorite character.
That being said, I’m still a fan and I’m looking forward to more dead rabbit poop jokes and bear-related carnage.
He’s not making a fool, he’s just pointing out that there hasn’t been a lot of room for Andrea to react other than she has so far.
Disgust to bear blood is rational, and she’s been established as an environmentalist – that’s about it so far because the story is still building.
The reason she’s a semi-hippie is because over half the characters we’ve met are that exact type!! Because the group was just at a convention of semi-hippies.
Accusing that of being against females is like saying that Tropic Thunder is anti-male because they start off as actor stereotypes, and that this is symbolism for the male’s facade of phallic integrity or whatever the shit.
My point: Ethan’s a good guy, and he took time out of his day to address Advil’s concerns.
Sorry for this replying to your comment: it wasn’t bad or anything, but it seemed the most reasonable sympathetic one for Advil.
there are, like, literally at least 7 things i d like to say, mainly regarding the writing-of-female-characters-by-male-writers, but im too lazy and also maybe a little drunk. so instead i ll just say you are doing a GREAT job, artwork and story-wise. just do your thing and in the future i suggest you dont indulge these pseudo-politically-gender-correct persons. there s always going to be haters, it is impossible to accommodate everyone
First bubble: Eugh! Ah well I’ve got worse on me in the kitchen
Second Bubble: I hope this helps
Third bubble: Good Lord. It’s the perfect marinade
OR
First bubble: It’s like seeing my rabbit get run over again
Second bubble: Don’t cry
Third bubble: Sir fluffypaws?!
Also long time reader, first time commenter. Love your comic and can’t wait to see more hybrid bears
On the one hand I haven’t really seen anything about Andrea that makes me interested in her as a character or a love interest, but on the other I don’t think that scene is particularly terrible.
Either way, you know and admit that writing female characters is something you’re not good at. No one can write all great characters, and it’s hard to develop a huge cast in the first hundred pages, especially on your first piece of work.
But your response to criticism is not to try to learn, but instead to throw the critic to your fans? You make fun of her and encourage the masses of the internet to shut her down and harass her (I’ve seen cases like this before, they generally lead to rape threats and super devoted fans going way too far)? This is way beyond unprofessional. If you think mocking your fans and telling people you hate criticism are good ideas, maybe webcomics aren’t for you. And if that’s not how you normally act, maybe you should figure out why you’re lashing out like this. I don’t understand how you could have thought this post was a good idea.
It can be easy to overthink female characters. So don’t! Not like they shouldn’t be complicated or interesting (they definitely should! We don’t get a lot of that), but when you look at women and men, there is so much commonality to the human experience that a woman will probably react to many situations just like a dude would. I mean, would a guy get covered in blood and be, “Awesome! This is delicious!” No, unless it was that nature guy, maybe. They are going to freak out and scream too. Or at least be very shocked and jarred. Don’t think too much about what female characters should be, and just think of what a normal person would do- because women are just normal people. (And speaking of blood and ladies, please, no period/bear jokes. Those are based on a myth and pretty much groan-inducing!)
David H, I don’t think Ethan is in any way making a fool out of Advil. I think the attempts at different dialogue show up the fact that in a freaky, weird, unlikely, rarely ever happening scene like this – well, it’s not a typical opportunity for ‘character development’.
I look forward to some of the guys getting grossed out too, but that’s already happened – the reactions to the situations haven’t been one sided. Andrea doesn’t seem to be picked on by Ethan, IMO. I think it is responsible of us as commentators to be respectful when posting to people who have a comment like this, and not to fly off the handle. I find it strange that you’ve read Ethan’s response as “making a fool” out of her.
In fact, to add to this, aside from sitting in the car and having her life saved by Dickinson, the last action Andrea was part of was turning the can up. I can recall both their names but two of the guys were standing not helping. Andrea isn’t one to stand back from helping out the group. She will get in there. So far, not much of the story has been brought to us through her POV. But she isn’t a shrieking damsel in distress by any means. Anyhow, back to the topic at hand – ETHAN – this is heating up man. The fact that they’re now close to the city is huge – you’re ramping this up!!! Can’t wait for each week!
Enjoying the chorus of varied responses here. I am deleting tampon jokes though (and anything else I deem inappropriate). I’ll edit the commenter’s username out of the blog too, though I don’t think it’s a huge issue because they already posted it publicly. I definitely was not trying to attack this person, just confront what they said and have some fun with it. Sometimes the internet gets a little over sensitive in my opinion. This is not a good comic for the super sensitive.
I enjoy your comic, and I’m not going to stop reading it. I think you misinterpreted my comment. I don’t consider myself to be super sensitive. I am not offended, I just thought it was a bad writing style. You mostly put her in this specific situation, and causes her to be seen as a boring and unlikable character.
Advil!! Please don’t use value judgments like “bad writing style.” That’s offensive, and also the exact opposite of constructive criticism.
I commend Ethan for taking the time to address your concerns, not many artists would do the same.
I don’t normally post, but I’ve been reading the comic from day 1. Great job so far, Ethan. I personally think that the poo bunny gag is really funny.
Hi, I’m a female reader, first time poster, and fan of Bearmageddon and Axe Cop. Won’t be surprised if you skip this since there’s so many posts, but I’ll leave my thoughts anyway.
My first thought when I read your blog is that most characters haven’t had time to develop. So I’m sure things will change.
That said, the problem with Andrea at the moment isn’t necessarily that “she was grossed out by blood, then a poo rabbit”. I think anyone in that situation, male or female, would be grossed out. I can handle the sight of blood better than most guys I know.
Thus far, when Andrea typically gets dialogue, she’s expressing her disgust at something. Like when Gogs is carrying a bear’s head in his bag. Or when the fight with the bears first started in the woods, she got blood on her face then too. I really don’t mind seeing her get dirty and saying “ew”, but when that’s the extent of her dialogue, it becomes the problem. (Also, when it’s noticably only happening to HER.)
She hasn’t really had anything so far that shows a positive quality about her personality, other than “she’s an environmentalist”. Other than that, her scenes have mostly been angrily protesting with the others and getting grossed out.
The other characters have at least SOMETHING that makes them likeable. Burton is laid back and seems pretty accepting. Gogs is funny. Louis loves and looks up to his big brother. Besser seems like a good guy to talk to, and as your character page says, he’s “always willing to give a helping hand.” (Nigel is an exception, but he’s gone through a recent change in personality with his want to help the trees and stuff.)
But Andrea? She likes helping animals and nature. That doesn’t tell you anything about her people skills. In my mind, she’s kind of lumped into the same group as Joel’s dad and Ken, which is “angry people you have to deal with anyway”. The difference is, I think they’re SUPPOSED to be in that group at this point in the story, and I’m not sure she is. But she’ll probably stay there until she gets more development.
Another thought about the bear-head-in-bag-thing is that before you’ve built up good qualities about the character, you’ve already established her as a “poser” with your comments on tomboys. (I’m actually fine with the scene, I just think the timing was bad.)
I can’t remember who made the comment, but there was someone who said that when they write new characters, the write the part for a white male, which is what they know/are used to. Then the change the race/gender to whatever it needs to be. The result is believeable, relatable characters. Obviously there’s going to be some changes here and there for the gender, but I find it to be a helpful way to think about characters when writing.
I stand by my thought that you haven’t had enough time to develop ANY characters yet, besides Joel and Gogs. I do hope to see some positive qualities about Andrea, because she’s really hateable right now.
Keep the slaughter coming, and good luck in figuring out what character development works for you. 🙂
I agree I really don’t like Andrea at all. If you made her to be an unlikeable poser then you wrote her very well. The only characters I like so far are Gogs, Dickinson, and Besser. I hope that they are the survivors or go out in a blase of glory, couldn’t care less about anyone else.
You expressed this much better than I could. Also I agree that this comic is great, it’s not like I’m going to stop reading it or anything. I’d just enjoy it more if she had more depth, y’know?
Thanks. 🙂 I thought that might be the point you were trying to make, and maybe there was just a misunderstanding. It’s frustrating trying to write for a point of view you can’t possibly experience, and Andrea can easily be a target for ANYONE who has the slightest problem with her, since she’s the only female (besides Keller, but my guess is she’s bear feed). I’d love to see more depth for her, and I hopeful that it’s coming. It’s only the beginning, after all. 😀
I’m doing some writing now, and what I’m trying out is putting a piece of my own personality into every prominent character, so I can relate to them better. I think it helps getting into their head a bit better, even if the bulk of their personality is something I’m not.
I just reread the part where Ethan told me to stop by every once and a while, and it broke my heart. I won’t quit this comic! My attempted critique does not reflect anger, only an aesthetic judgement. I like the idea that Andrea is intentionally shallow so that she can develop depth later, but I don’t feel bad for not assuming that’s the case when I see something I don’t like. Anyways, I wish you luck and am glad to see that the plot is approaching it’s ascent into action and adventure.
Chanchi’s post is along the lines of what I was thinking too. It’s not so much that her reaction is unnatural, but the frequency of these kinds of things happening to her and then her reaction of disgust towards them, also taking into account the amount of ‘screen time’ she’s had.
For example, I think everyone agrees that a guy would react similarly, but then why didn’t blood splash into one of the guys’ faces? Why did it have to be Andrea? (I know her position in the bus is a factor but that’s beside the point.) The bunny joke would have worked just as well with anyone else.
Others have mentioned that there are times when Andrea is calm and collected, but those don’t stick out in memory, at least not mine. What I remember about this character, and therefore view as her personality and the way she is written, is the times when she’s being grossed out and angry.
That said, I’m not actually offended or anything and it’s not like I’m going to stop reading.
Congrats Ethan, you have made a fool of me :P. Anyways, your response to my response to your webcomic is kind and reasonable. I only broke down in tears two or so times at the absolute most. Four times. The fault I find (and was unable to express) is: Andrea gets put into these situations way more times than the narrative requires! I don’t think her reaction was inappropriate, but I think you should question why you put her in this situation so often when she barely has any other place in the story as is. Most characters except Killdeer has one brief moment of being disgusted by intense gore and she has three (I think? maybe two.) separate sequences devoted to her being grossed out. She seems like a magnet for this kind of thing, because of the nature of her character. THAT’S what I have a problem with.
I’ve been looking through the last few pages just to get a better handle on Andrea’s general behavior. While I don’t think her reaction/emotional state should’ve been different, I sense some of the “fatigue” with her portrayal so far may come from 50% of all her text being simply “Eww!” or some other nondescript screamy noise.
I’d suggest a character’s history can color the way she expresses disgust and fear. Y’know? Like, have her shout “Frack!” Means she’s a sci-fi geek.
Here’s how I’d caption the 3 panels. 1. “*cough* Tastes like *retch* ass! 2. “This’ll help” 3. “Oh wait. This was actually the ass.” *Vomits*
Also, lemme just add that I do consider “ew ew ew!” a stereotypical portrayal of women. It points to.. daintiness, I guess? I think a modern girl of any background would be cussing up a shitstorm given the situation.
Yeah, it’s just this trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WomenAreDelicate
I think a lot of the criticism of her character is not specifically of her reactions in certain situations, but the authorial motivations involved in which situations are chosen for her to be placed into. So far she hasn’t been given much space to develop as a 3-dimensional human with immediate and overarching motivations. It’s mostly just been “let’s gross out the girl” jokes.
There’s still time though; we’ve only barely reached the second act. I’m hoping her character can develop into a voice of temperance to balance out all the over-testosteroned idiot males in the comic.
Yeah, that wouldn’t be stereotypical at all and totally creative.
*shrug* Never said it wouldn’t be, but it would get that issue out of the way so the comic can focus on where it really shines: Hideous Mutant Bear Attacks.
So, on the premise that she’s an “earthier” girl:
1: God damn it! Why do you always spray the filth and gore at me, you disgusting oaf?
2: Apologies. Never courted before.
3: Courted? You … wait, is this the same rabbit from before? God! You’re doing it again!
Sets up some “protests too much” tension, plays up Killdeer’s specific blend of boorish and polite, and lets her shell crack for just an instant before she’s provoked back to anger on the comedy beat. Going forward, angry disgust would make her a lot more interesting than helpless disgust, and play better into her romantically interacting with any of the dudes or Keller.
I personally think that you are doing just fine in portraying Andrea as a basically normal person, in the circumstances given. I purposely went back to check, and Andrea DOES NOT in fact “scream” every few pages. In fact, I believe that she is one of the calmer of the bunch. Yes, she has been “grossed out” a few times, but so have they all. And face it, despite how many pages there have been, it just hasn’t been that long, story-time wise, and there isn’t any realistic way that ANY of them could have had much in the way of personal development yet.
That said, I thought I would go for trying to write the panels in question in a MORE stereotypical way. Since there doesn’t seem to be any issue with Dickson’s response, I am keeping that the same. Ready?
Verson one, the pacifistic nature-lover.
Panel 1: Oooh, you horrid creature! You . . . you did that on purpose! You sprayed me with its blood, tainting ME during your ritualistic slaughter of a lesser being!
Panel 2: Here you go, I apologize for that.
Panel 3: What? A bunny? Are you are trying to implicate me in the murder of this poor little innocent rabbit too?
Version 2, the pampered “princess”
Panel 1: Yuck! You got BLOOD on me! Oh, my make-up is ruined. Completely RUINED! My outfit is probably a total loss too. I hope you’re happy!
Panel 2: Here you go, I apologize for that.
Panel 3: You gave me that? Your USED poo bunny? For my face? Are you insane? I don’t put anything less than pure silk on my skin!
Luke, Cathy, TK, Mikey Cooper, Frank, Stu, Glowworm, trevise, Ethan, I @#$%&ing love you guys.
Chanchi, Advil- my compliments on staying classy this entire time. One question, if I may? It seems like you’re saying that the things that the two of you dislike about Andrea are *only* because of the way things *are*, and are both not only NOT decrying Ethan’s writing for it, but are interested in seein gif Andrea improves in her outlook, yes? (That’s what I gleaned from your replies, but I didn’t want to assume)
Skaves, Kevin, David Hansen, and Ryan, I hope you guys stick around. I am damn sure that while we readers might continue to argue ’til the cows come home, Ethan and his story will have some awesome surprises for you.
If I missed anybody, my apologies!! PEACE, DAWGS!!
That’s pretty much it, yes. Like I said, it’s only the beginning so there’s plenty of room for all the characters to grow. One thing that I may not have made clear is that I understand that all the characters are based off of common stereotypes (as Ethan said in his blog), and if he wants to make Andrea get grossed out at every turn, I don’t have a problem with that. But if that’s all her dialogue, then she becomes stale.
Since Andrea is one of two female characters right now, and the prominent of the two, it’s easy to look at her and say she’s not written well. Like I said in my last post, there’s no reason for the readers of any gender to like her right now. It could very well be that Ethan’s intent is to make the reader hate her at this point, then as she grows, she’ll be easier to like. As someone on the outside, it’s not easy to tell whether that’s intended and will change, or has been overlooked. I know Ethan said Andrea will do some growing, but we don’t really know where she’s starting from.
The only characters I see that might be able to keep their heads on their shoulders during an experience like this are Dickinson, Joel’s dad, and possibly Besser. None of the kids are “strong” characters, and I don’t expect them to be yet.
Sorry if anybody’s already said this – there’s a bit too much information on this page for me to read it all.
That being said, my first reaction to to the complaint is to be somewhat in agreement, but let me clarify. Naturally Andrea is going be disgusted by being covered in blood and I think that’s realistic, but the problem for me that is that she’s put in many similar situations where there isn’t much way for her to react other than that. She went from being a cocksure activist to someone that goes around screaming at most of the things she encounters; a legitimate response, but one that gets a little repetitive, perhaps.
I’m sure that in the blood panel she could be replaced by almost any of the other characters and the humor would still be there without having to make her the constant brunt of all the gross-out jokes.
Just my two cents.
When I saw the guy falling to his death, the wilhelm scream played in my mind. I guess I’m just a bad person.
I didn’t think you were attacking anybody Ethan. I just wanted to see everyone, yourself included, be a little more receptive to what she was saying and spend less time explaining it away or dismissing it with humor. Nice to see people doing a little more thinking and talking about it. I’ve been around since you posted page 1 and I don’t talk much but I thought it was worth speaking up for a second. Hope all the dudes and ladies stick around and I hope you keep doing your thing cause obviously we all dig it enough to be reading and posting comments. Usually I avoid that ish like the plague but ya’ll are a decent bunch. I just saw what was being said and was thinking about a convo I had with my girl the night before about how comics are often written by dudes for dudes. Some girls dig them anyway but some girls could dig them more if the people making and reading them made some space for it. Seems like some girls already dig what you’re doing so you’re doing something right. I would just say (and you don’t have to listen to me cause I’m no lady or emperor or whatever) to just stay open when stuff like this comes up cause I think it’s important for comics, and for life more generally, you know? That’s all. I’m back to the bears now…
*high fives Ryan*
I still disagree witcha that there was problem in what Ethan’s doing, Sir, BUT, one way or another- Class. You too have brought it, right there. And that’s ALWAYS important. So thanks to you too, and good on ya.
See, thanks to Advil’s persistence, and Chanchi’s support of her, I think I see what our (the readership’s) main problem has been here: This “Andrea Debate” (or this current one, anyway) came out of readers saying
“Hey, this presentation LOOKS like *this thing* is going on- is it? I don’t really like *this thing*, but I’m not mad or anything, just curious as to whether or no this will continue, and if so, why.”
…and these thoughts being phrased (by multiple people, I theorize) in such a way that it across instead as
“Ethan, this is wrong. Why are you doing that? That is wrong.”
…which, of course, is asking no questions, and making assumptions, and *that’s* no good way to open a discussion. Asking no questions and stating assumptions is always a good way to sound like you don’t care what the other person thinks, and are only concerned about *your* points.
Again, very glad that we have more and more people who’ve been involved in this debate who didn’t seem open at all seem to be quite the opposite, now that we’ve hashed things out further. This is a badass comic, by a badass creator- we should be spreading the LOVE, not the HATE!
And of course, spread the bears about, too. SO VERY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEXT FEW STRIPS, MY WORD, FELLOWS, THEY’RE GOING IN!!!!
There’s definitely no one way to write a story, so I apologize if I came off saying what Ethan was doing was completely wrong. I’m open to discussion and was hoping for it, so thank you for being reasonable.
The main purpose of my post was to help clarify what Advil was trying to say since I felt there was a misunderstanding, and to give some solid reasoning behind it. I suppose I “asked no questions” because I don’t have any at this point; Ethan explained his case, so I wanted to share as well. If there are more points to be shared, or if someone wants to dissect mine, I’ll listen. I’m here to give my thoughts and see what others have to say as well.
I’m not the best conversationalist, so I’m sorry if I seemed pushy with my post.
Advil I’m happy to have you as a reader. You are a good sport and I’m glad you are not as defensive or sensitive as some of your defenders were.
The funny thing is, I think I intentionally made andrea obnoxious donut would be more of a relief when she progressed. I think everyone is reacting to the tension created by her resistance to changing and adapting. I think that tension is raised by the comic coming out one page per week. I think it’s a similar tension felt in a film but it only takes minutes to get to the growth. On a weekly web comic it takes months.
‘I think I intentionally made andrea obnoxious donut would be more of a relief when she progressed’
Don’t wanna be a grammar nazi, but WHAT were you trying to say exactly? O_O
Hahaha. Woops. iPhone autocorrect. “donut” was supposed to be “so it”.
First off, of course I am very much enjoying this comic, I wouldn’t be here commenting if I didn’t which I’m sure is true for everyone here! The issue of character development is always going to be very complicated, especially in an action centric situation, and I’m glad to see we’ve pretty much all thought that through and agreed on it at this point, I hope? 😉
It does still stick in the throat a little that all these stereotypes of women repeatedly come up here, and I think I agree that indeed that joke could have been any character with no change to dialogue at all and still worked, female characters taking the hit on the getting disgusted and grossed out humour all the time makes me extremely weary as a woman reading comics on the internet.
I really don’t want this to turn into another of my modern feminist rants, so I’ll try and cut myself off. I just really hope over time on here we can all move on from this issue of women and their portrayal, enjoy some character development regardless of gender, and naturally, BEARS TEARING THINGS UP!
Can’t wait to see myself get mauled 🙂
First bubble: Oh, God. Bear blood stains are the worst! How am I ever going to get this off my face?
Second bubble: Here, this poo bunny might help. Give it a try.
Third bubble: Holy crap, that cleaned up quick! I need some of these poo bunnies for around the house.
Oh, and of course Dickinson was/is a Boy Scout. Somebody forgot to do a roll call before leaving camp a few decades ago, didn’t they?
First bubble: Ahhhh! It’s in my eyes! I need a rag or a napkin or something! Hurry! I don’t know what this’ll do to them! (To me, Ahhhh beats the squealing, girly, ‘ew.’ I mean, c’mon, she’s got blood in her eyes. That’s cause for distress, not whining. Or at least distressful whining)
Second: Here you go. I apologize for that.
Third: Great. First the blood, now this. Somebody wanna pee on me, too, so I can have a trifecta?
Of course, I don’t know that bitchy is any better, but it’s different.
Giving up on this comic and unsubscribbing. 🙂 Good job on being a douche and bad writer.
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm293/bricthegreat/bearmageddon.png
I don’t like Bearmageddon.
You felt you had to express this via a comment on its website?
Yes, because I wanted to like it so much. I don’t have a problem with just the female characters I have a problem with all the characters. They’re stock and uninteresting. The pacing of this comic wretched and the art/framing is rushed. Ethan’s too far into the comic to fix it now and to invested to give up so he could use his talents elsewhere. I don’t like Bearmageddon.
A thought just occurred to me here as I was thinking about Andrea vs. the Bear (or what small parts of the bear she interfaces with (literally)) – if I HAD to pick some nits to worry at, dialogue-wise, its that Andrea’s reaction seems to go too quickly to revulsion.
In a high paced situation like that, I think it’d take a few seconds for the enormity of what just happened to sink in enough to register as revulsion. The first emotion that’s immediately experienced would likely be shock – shock at unexpected warm fluid all over the face.
Perhaps something like “augh” or “AHH” or “nugh what the f-” would come across as less dainty or “girly”.
Not even a serious thing though, but something to idly chew over.
I don’t know if I’ve ever posted here before, but in case I haven’t, love the comic – its friggin’ great. Keep it up! I and the rest of your readers eagerly look forward to more.
I’m a bear with surprisingly good typing skills. Just wanted to say the bears are not getting enough depth. We don’t only roar and bite, we also feel and love. Mainly honey. I hope you will fix this.
Hear, hear.
Panel 1: “Augh. Freaking blood in my face! I’m telling you, I’d better not get some bear pox or become a were-bear!”
Panel 2: “Here, you can borrow Shamwow.”
Panel 3: “Thank y… Dude, this better not be the rabbit you wipe your behind with.”
Would be something like my reaction, but I’d swear more. Because turning all dudebro is apparently how I cope with crazy stuff.
Bubble #1 – This feeling – I am reminded of the warmth and miracle of birth – A joy, but also a spectacle of gore and pain. It connects me to the mother I have yet to be!
Bubble #2 – Take this pelt and clean thyself, virginal neo-goddess.
Bubble #3 – This rabbit, representational of the fertility of my youth, has been marked by blood born of violence AND salvation. My femininity is transcendent…
My take on the blogged image:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/andreaiswomanhearherroa.jpg/
first frame: How am I supposed to teach you how to perform rabbit face transplants if you keep killing the patients? Did you guys even go to vet school?
second: Not really. I think I got it this time. What do you think?
third: What in the hell? You made your incision on his ass!
first frame: We should have never tried to find the legendary black beast of Aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh.
second: Get him off of me!!!
third: NOOOOO! The killer rabbit of caerbannog!!!